Comments on: telling secrets http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/2007/04/18/telling-secrets/ listening for whispers from the wings Sat, 05 Jun 2010 08:49:06 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: mark mck http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/2007/04/18/telling-secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-1010 mark mck Sun, 13 May 2007 14:24:17 +0000 http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/?p=11#comment-1010 By various ways my thoughts seem to keep being directed back to the problem of evil, suffering and the soverignity of God every now and then. They are by now way developed, but here goes... Who is in control of this world? We like to say that God is, he made it, all things hold together by him, he is in control - that thought comforts us that is until something goes terribly wrong. At those times words and logic seem to fail us. At a recent class on Bonhoffer my attention was drawn to a couple of verses which seem to suggest that God isn't actually in control of this world - John 12:31; 1 John 5:19. They seem to be clearly saying God isn't in control the devil is, which makes it a bit easier to explain bad things happening! Do we need to grasp afresh the battle imagery in the bible, realising that this world and our lives are under the attack of the devil? And as is suggested by Buechner, God is along side us in this battle tending our wounds and acting as the great director (commander)? By various ways my thoughts seem to keep being directed back to the problem of evil, suffering and the soverignity of God every now and then. They are by now way developed, but here goes…

Who is in control of this world? We like to say that God is, he made it, all things hold together by him, he is in control – that thought comforts us that is until something goes terribly wrong. At those times words and logic seem to fail us.

At a recent class on Bonhoffer my attention was drawn to a couple of verses which seem to suggest that God isn’t actually in control of this world – John 12:31; 1 John 5:19. They seem to be clearly saying God isn’t in control the devil is, which makes it a bit easier to explain bad things happening!

Do we need to grasp afresh the battle imagery in the bible, realising that this world and our lives are under the attack of the devil? And as is suggested by Buechner, God is along side us in this battle tending our wounds and acting as the great director (commander)?

]]> By: Until tomorrow http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/2007/04/18/telling-secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-772 Until tomorrow Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:06:38 +0000 http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/?p=11#comment-772 In relation to the last couple of posts: perhaps the really difficult question then is not how a good God can allow suffering, but why a sovereign God, who is in control (which I guess is something I'd want to maintain alongside the other two things which are 'simple and good and true'... if he's not in control surely the question of 'who wins' really is as yet undecided), allows things to happen that are not part of his original good plan. It's pretty amazing to think that we have an omnipotent God who is not a control freak and who yet loves to bring beauty and goodness out of the mess of allowing things not to happen his way. What would it look like for those of us who are leaders (or have power or influence in some way) to reflect that? In relation to the last couple of posts: perhaps the really difficult question then is not how a good God can allow suffering, but why a sovereign God, who is in control (which I guess is something I’d want to maintain alongside the other two things which are ’simple and good and true’… if he’s not in control surely the question of ‘who wins’ really is as yet undecided), allows things to happen that are not part of his original good plan. It’s pretty amazing to think that we have an omnipotent God who is not a control freak and who yet loves to bring beauty and goodness out of the mess of allowing things not to happen his way. What would it look like for those of us who are leaders (or have power or influence in some way) to reflect that?

]]> By: Steve http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/2007/04/18/telling-secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-721 Steve Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:53:09 +0000 http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/?p=11#comment-721 Fascinating. So, please excuse me if I'm being completely obvious, but I assume this is part of the same idea that you posted recently about the authority of the Bible? I'm making the connection anyhow - perhaps it's the same author. I love it. Is there the implication, though, that there is a limit to what God can do? So, we're living in this fallen, messed up world, and God is among us, offering help to try to do things which will make it better. But does that restrict us? Also, this is one model, based on Buechner's experience. How can it be reconciled with those who live and breathe the miraculous? Perhaps, I'm over simplifying people's experience, but I often find that there are fellow believers who preach and expect perfection and the miraculous in all things; the impression is given that God is more than just in the wings, but is moving and shaking nature according to His will. I don't deny this power, but neither can I accept that it is as just asking God. Is there room in Buechner's model for the miraculous? How does it fit in? Are there other elements to consider in asking this question? Fascinating. So, please excuse me if I’m being completely obvious, but I assume this is part of the same idea that you posted recently about the authority of the Bible? I’m making the connection anyhow – perhaps it’s the same author.

I love it. Is there the implication, though, that there is a limit to what God can do? So, we’re living in this fallen, messed up world, and God is among us, offering help to try to do things which will make it better. But does that restrict us?

Also, this is one model, based on Buechner’s experience. How can it be reconciled with those who live and breathe the miraculous? Perhaps, I’m over simplifying people’s experience, but I often find that there are fellow believers who preach and expect perfection and the miraculous in all things; the impression is given that God is more than just in the wings, but is moving and shaking nature according to His will. I don’t deny this power, but neither can I accept that it is as just asking God. Is there room in Buechner’s model for the miraculous? How does it fit in? Are there other elements to consider in asking this question?

]]> By: zoomoterian http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/2007/04/18/telling-secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-713 zoomoterian Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:46:08 +0000 http://jaybercrow.furiousthinking.org/?p=11#comment-713 Freddie the Presbie is getting very Calvinistic there. By which I mean he is taking his cues from Jean Calvin and not his tulip-bearing successors. I hate when you do this Jaybercrow. I don't like Beuchner. I have an irrational dislike of him and you start posting stuff like this and I have to go and change my mind. I HATE CHANGING MY MIND! :) Freddie the Presbie is getting very Calvinistic there. By which I mean he is taking his cues from Jean Calvin and not his tulip-bearing successors.

I hate when you do this Jaybercrow. I don’t like Beuchner. I have an irrational dislike of him and you start posting stuff like this and I have to go and change my mind.

I HATE CHANGING MY MIND! :)

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